The Bible and Homosexuality… (response to Mark Sandlin Huffington Post)

I recently had someone send me an article with good intent. Here is the article by Mark Sandlin: http://www.thegodarticle.com/faith/clobbering-biblical-gay-bashing

—>We Christians are good at a lot of things. Helping others. Dressing up on Sunday. Quoting scripture. Pot luck meals. Taking care of church members. Weddings. Funerals. Worship.

I think there are some things left out here:

In the unevangelized world, there are 20,500 full-time Christian workers and 10,200 foreign missionaries.

Approximately 78.5 million Bibles are distributed globally per year.

An average of 159,960 Christians worldwide are martyred for their faith per year.

The picture painted in these first few words are inaccurate and unfair.

—>But perhaps the thing at which we are the most persistently exceptional is misinterpreting the Bible then running amuck in the world because of it.

32% of the worlds population proclaims Christianity. Would you not say that non-Christians are just as well verse if not better versed at misinterpreting the Bible. I think they would be Christians if they weren’t.

—>Honestly, mad skills. And history backs me up on this one. We have used the Bible to support, promote and act upon some pretty un-Christian things: slavery, holocaust, segregation, subjugation of women, apartheid, the Spanish Inquisition (which, no one ever expects), domestic violence, all sorts of exploitation and the list could go on and on.

Once again you are incorrect. A Christian (Greek for little Christ) is someone who follows the teachings of Christ living their lives out as a sacrifice to Him. So these people… the ones who did not follow Christ’s teachings, they are Christians just because they said they were? So basically I could walk up and slap someone and say I’m a Democrat and they get the blame for it? Awesome. Jefferey Dauhmer claimed to be a Christian. Almost all politicians claim to be Christians. For some reason I don’t think that is accurate though.

What does the Bible have to say about this?

Matt 7:21
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

2 Corinthians 11:13-15
For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. So it is no surprise if his servants, also, disguise themselves as servants of righteousness. Their end will correspond to their deeds.

Titus 1:16
They profess to know God, but they deny him by their works. They are detestable, disobedient, unfit for any good work.
Matthew 7:15
“Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves.
1 John 4:1
Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world.
John 13:35
By this all people will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”

—>Oddly, if you ask theologians to pick one biblical theme to rule them all, most of them would say “love”… well, love and grace.

Which theologian. My father-in law is a theologian with a Masters in Theology who speeks 7 different languages including knowing Greek, Hebrew, and Latin. I will ask him and Im not sure he will come up with that same answer. In college I was taught that the theme of the Bible is the restoration of God’s image in His children through His grace,mercy, and sacrifice. I was told by a Christian counselor that the theme of the Bible was to show God first as a Father who was a Holy Righteous Judge and in the new testament as an Adopted approachable Father who was a Holy Righteous Judge.

—>Okay, love, grace and forgiveness. Fine. They probably would not specifically agree on a single term, but they would most likely name something that is, in every way, the opposite of the oppression, belittlement, hatred and marginalization represented by the numerous atrocities committed by the Christian Church.

The begenning of this is conjecture… “most likely”

Again a Christian is someone who follows the teachings of Christ or does their best to. The Church is 2 or more people gathered together in Christs name, not an organization. Thanks for playing.

—>More times than not, these atrocities are the result of trying to play God, pretending as if one group of people has complete knowledge of God’s will and is more blessed or chosen by God. Not surprisingly, the people who see the world this way are always exactly the people who also happen to belong in the group they believe to be the uber-blessed. Lucky them. Time and time again, Jesus made it clear that we should not put ourselves in the place of playing God and that,

what verse is this? I dont remember Jesus particularly saying not to “play God”… I get that you are paraphrasing but it would really help if you refer to the verses that you are speaking of because alot you have already said looks to be taken out of context

—>unlike far too many humans, God welcomes and loves us all equally. Period.

What does that mean? Welcomes and loves us? Does that mean that everyone goes to heaven? Im not sure. But the Bible specifically says in about 2 dozen places that not everyone goes to heaven. Yes, you like read John 3:16 but did you read the verses after.

Tools specific to Jhn 3:16

Jhn 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Jhn 3:17
For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

Jhn 3:18
He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

The hippy god of all love and no wrath is a made up God. God does love. The Bible also says that he will not be mocked and he is a perfect judge.

—>Ignoring the biblical directive to show all the children of God love (and grace… and forgiveness).

I really wish you would have listed verses instead of how you feel the Bible says things. What is a child of God? What is this love you keep speaking of?

we are to love in truth not in lies Eph 4:15

Wait? Jesus went after the pharasees, was he showing them love?

Mat 3:7

But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?

Wrath? What wrath…? God is love and peace and hapiness and flowers!!!!

—>Hate By Any Other Name Oh sure, this time around we have “softened” our approach, saying things like “hate the sin, love the sinner,” but we fail to recognize that what we are calling a “sin” and the person we are calling a “sinner” are one and the same. A person whose sexual orientation is homosexual, or bi-sexual, or queer can no more separate themselves from their sexuality than a heterosexual person can.

Really? I know Christians that struggle with homosexuality but they still live a Christian life and admit sin is sin. We are all born with sin. Without the power of Christ they can not seperate themselves from their sexuality… you are correst.

—>It’s like saying “hate the toppings, love the pizza.” It’s just not the pizza without the toppings. We just aren’t loving the person if we don’t love the whole person.

Ok… so. We cant love a murderer or a theif unless we love their acts too… got it.

—>I suspect the “softening” of the language we use has everything to do with making us feel better and very little with making LGBTQ folk feel better, because it certainly doesn’t make them feel any better. As a matter of fact, the love/hate (emphasis on hate) relationship that the Church continues to push on this group of people only serves to push them into closets and into even darker places, which sometimes leads to suicide. The Church and its approach to this issue are at fault for most of the hurt, anguish, self-doubt, abuse and death associated with being LGBTQ. Not very loving.

Again, is it loving to call a theif a theif? Truth is just truth, you cant have opinions about truth. Diagreeing with a lifestyle is not “un-loving”, its calling what is wrong wrong. If my daughter becomes a murderer can I still love her? Oh it isnt loving to call her a murderer or to condemn the act is it? If my daughter becomes a homosexual and I pray she doesnt, I will still love her. I will weep nightly for her self-astrangment from God but I will still love her and I will be no less her father. Your whole arguement is based off of the predisposition that homosexuality is not a sin.

—>We would much rather reinforce the things we want to believe than believe the sometimes difficult teachings of Jesus. Who, on a side note, never said a word about homosexuality but did tell us to gouge out our lustful eyes. Which seems to me is more likely to leave us all blind than the “eye for and eye” thing.

That is the first thing said here that I agree with. I am not pointing at others saying “you sinner”. I am a sinner and a horrible person outside of Christ. But the Bible says Proverbs 22:6 to train up a child in the way they should go. I am to teach my child what sin is and I will teach her what the Bible says is sin.

—>The Bible As A Sex Manual So, as others have pointed out before, we use the Bible as if it is a sex manual, telling us what is and isn’t acceptable in the eyes of the Lord your God. Thereby delineating out those whom it is okay for us to judge, and toward whom it is okay to direct all kinds of nastiness and holier-than-thouisms.

Are you judging that Christians are judgemental. Dont you have to make a judgement to even say that? This is circular thinking and comes from cherry-picking the Bible.

Once again I think we forgot to read the verse after. It gets confusing with all of this Bible paraphrasing doesnt it?

Mat 7:1
“Judge not, that you be not judged.
Mat 7:2
“For with what judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with the measure you use, it will be measured back to you.

So dont judge unless you want to be judge in the same way you judged? Ok.

—>Not only should a wife be subordinate (Ephesians 5:22)

Ok, Im going to say this at this point because its fairly obvious… and you may count it as hateful or mean but its just the truth. You obviously know absolutely nothing about the Bible. WOW. ITS IN THE SAME CHAPTER JUST ONE VERSE ABOVE!!!!

Ephesians 5:21 Submit to one another out of reverence for Christ.

Oh… this is making my brain hurt.

—>lest she be stoned (Deuteronomy 22:20-21).

Im not a Jew, are you a Jew? This was instructions for Jews alone. It wouldnt even matter if we were Jews now because…

Gal 3:10-14

For all who rely on the works of the law are under a curse, as it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.”
Clearly no one who relies on the law is justified before God, because “the righteous will live by faith.”
The law is not based on faith; on the contrary, it says, “The person who does these things will live by them.”
Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a pole.”
He redeemed us in order that the blessing given to Abraham might come to the Gentiles through Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit.

That doesnt make it ok to sin Romans6:1-2 but the point is STOP QUOTING Deuteronomy and Leviticus, Laws of Moses meant only for the Jew at that time in History. The purpose of the Old Testament is to show us God as a father who is a Righteous Holy Judge and the purpose of the New Testiment is to show us God as a father who is a Rightous Holy Adoptive (through Christ) Judge.

Here is another example of the Law of Moses and the new testament view sinec you used stoning as an example:

1but Jesus went to the Mount of Olives.
2At dawn he appeared again in the temple courts, where all the people gathered around him, and he sat down to teach them. 3The teachers of the law and the Pharisees brought in a woman caught in adultery. They made her stand before the group 4and said to Jesus, “Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery. 5In the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women.Now what do you say?” 6They were using this question as a trap,in order to have a basis for accusing him.
But Jesus bent down and started to write on the ground with his finger. 7When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, “Let any one of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her.” 8Again he stooped down and wrote on the ground.
9At this, those who heard began to go away one at a time, the older ones first, until only Jesus was left, with the woman still standing there. 10Jesus straightened up and asked her, “Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?”
11“No one, sir,” she said.
“Then neither do I condemn you,”Jesus declared. “Go now and leave your life of sin.”

See? Jesus didnt stone her as the Old Testament verses you mentioned commanded but HE DID CALL SIN A SIN!

—>she must marry his brother and have intercourse with him until she has a son (Mark 12:18-27).

Again this is a reference to the Law of Moses

—>most of us have matured enough theologically to recognize that we need to contextualize the writings of the Bible

Or maybe we should just read it as it seems from your remarks you havent. Did you just google “problems with the Bible” and copy and paste?

There is so much wrong here that I just get overwhelmed and I cant comment on all of it.

—>Equally interesting to consider: it is actually more of a choice to judge and marginalize people over being homosexual, or, bi-sexual, or queer; than it is a choice to be homosexual, or, bi-sexual, or queer.

I know right??? we choose to judge murderers too. We need to stop that. They didnt choose to be murderers. They were born that way. Calling them murderers is bigotous maginalizing and unloving.

—>Putting Genesis 2:21-25, Deuteronomy 23:17 and Jude 1:6-7 in the category of anti-gay verses is nothing more than an attempt to beef up the number of verses that are supposedly “against” homosexuality. They have nothing to do with it. So, I am simply going to ignore them.

But why? You used Deuteronomy to “prove” your point.

Ezekiel 16:49-50 declares, “Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy. They were haughty and did detestable things before me…” The Hebrew word translated “detestable” refers to something that is morally disgusting and is the exact same word (tow`ebah ) used in Leviticus 18:22 that refers to homosexuality as an “abomination.”

Lev 18:22
“?‘Do not have sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman; that is detestable.

the rule may be Law of Moses but there is a comment added… “that is detestable” or an abomination, Christ’s coming didnt change that.

Leviticus 18:22 & 20:13 If someone were to canonize a buzz-kill, it would look remarkably, and uncomfortably, like the book of Leviticus. Honestly, this three-thousand plus year old holiness code is not exactly a big ball of fun. For starters, just try reading it. On second thought, I like you, so don’t. Fortunately for you, I’ve done it for you.

—>mandate to kill disobedient children,

Law of Moses refer to Christ’s completion of the Law mentioned above

—>direction to not touch or eat the flesh of a pig (no bacon and cheddar soup for you!)

Again you googled all this. There is no way you read the Bible or you would know this:

Act 11:5-9

“I was in the city of Joppa praying, and in a trance I saw a vision. I saw something like a large sheet being let down from heaven by its four corners, and it came down to where I was.
I looked into it and saw four-footed animals of the earth, wild beasts, reptiles and birds.
Then I heard a voice telling me, ‘Get up, Peter. Kill and eat.’
“I replied, ‘Surely not, Lord! Nothing impure or unclean has ever entered my mouth.’
“The voice spoke from heaven a second time, ‘Do not call anything impure that God has made clean.’

—>Leviticus for what it was: a good thing for the people of God based on how they understood the world some three-thousand years ago.

—>Interestingly enough, when it comes to things like shellfish, eating and touching pigs, cutting our sideburns and beards, and stoning children who mouth off to their parents, we have already managed to do exactly that. Why?

Gal 3:10-14

For all who rely on the works of the law are under a curse, as it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.”
Clearly no one who relies on the law is justified before God, because “the righteous will live by faith.”
The law is not based on faith; on the contrary, it says, “The person who does these things will live by them.”
Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a pole.”
He redeemed us in order that the blessing given to Abraham might come to the Gentiles through Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit.

In a happy coincidence, the same rains nourish the barley and hops that are changed into beer. In an even happier coincidence, wine and beer both pair exceptionally well with shrimp. God is good). Romans 1:26-28 Good news ladies! Up until now, all of this clobbering has been about the guys. In Romans, you get to join in. Lucky you. Romans is the one place the Bible speaks specifically about a female-female sex act. If you listen to

—>Bible Thumpin’ Gay Bashers

really, name calling? Im sorry… Im going to skip alot now. You have become childish.

You list some “proof” about Romans but you arent giving verses at this point.

—>The word is arsenokoites and it means “male prostitute.”

Thayer’s Greek Lexicon does not define it that way. Did you get this off of Wikpedia? Thayer’s Greek Lexicon defines it in the original Greek as one who lies with a male as with a female. I hope I dont have to spell that out.

The word arsenokoites or ??se?????t?? is actually composed of two other separate ancient Greek words: arrhen or arsen meaning “male (as stronger for lifting): – male, man” and koite¯ meaning “a couch; by extension cohabitation; by implication the male sperm: – bed, chambering, X conceive.”1 The second half of the word seems to mean something sexual. When both halves of the word are placed together, the word arsenokoites could mean something that has to do with “men and bed” or “male and beds” or “men and beds,” with a sexual emphasis on “beds.” All of these translations have one thing in common: They all have to do with a man or men committing sexual sins. Notice that an ancient Greek prefix that refers to a woman is not incorporated into the word. Thus, the men must have committed a sexual sin with other men.

Some people may think that the term arsenokoites is too vague to mean homosexuality. Unfortunately, the word arsenokoites is not common in ancient Greek writings. In fact, most scholars believe that Paul “coined” the term because the earliest use of the word has been traced to Paul’s use of the word in the New Testament.

However, despite the perceived “ambiguity” of the word, dictionaries have made its meaning very clear. For example, according to Strong’s Concordance, arsenokoites means “a sodomite: – abuser of (that defile) self with mankind.” Moreover, according to An Intermediate Greek-English Lexicon, ??se?????t?? means “lying with men,” and A Greek-English Lexicon defines ???e?????t??, which is similar to ??se?????t??, as “sodomite.”

The ancient Greek word arsenokoites only occurs in two places in the Bible: 1 Tim. 1:10 and 1 Cor. 6:9. Several Bible versions translate the word arsenokoites to mean male homosexuality. This is, most likely, due to the fact that Paul created the word arsenokoites to address the sins that are listed in Lev. 18:22 and Lev. 20:13, which prohibit a man from being with another man. We can make this assumption because Paul states in 1 Tim. 1:8 that “. . . the law is not laid down for the just but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for . . . the sexually immoral, men who practice homosexuality . . . .” The “law” that he refers to is the Mosaic law of the Old Testament as set forth in the books of Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy, which includes Lev. 18:22 KJV, “You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination.”

Paul states in several other verses that the Mosaic law is no longer applicable to Christians; however, in 1 Tim. 1:10 and 1 Cor. 6:9, he states that the law is applicable to Christians in terms of sins that they need to avoid, and he lists homosexuality as one of those sins. Thus, when Paul uses the term arsenokoites to mean “male homosexuality,” he is referring to Lev. 18:22, which is a moral law that is relevant for Christians. Therefore, the English Standard Version’s translation of the term arsenokoites to mean “male homosexuality” in 1 Cor. 6:9 and 1 Tim. 1:10 is accurate.

Some ancient Greek bibles use the word arsenokoitai and not arsenokoites. Arsenokoitai must mean “homosexuals” or “male homosexuals” because arsenokoitai is the plural form of arsenokoites Obviously, it would not make sense to translate the word as “male – beds.” In fact, the word is self-identifying: It defines its own vice as “males – bed – males,” which is also known as “male homosexuals.” We can easily deduce that arsenokoitai defines itself as “males – bed – males” because the noun form of the word arsenokoites is nominative, singular, masculine and the noun form of the word arsenokoitai is nominative, plural, masculine. Since arsenokoites and arsenokoitai are masculine, they must have only applied to males. Thus, “males – bed – males” is an accurate translation; arsenokoites must have meant “male homosexual” and arsenokoitai must have meant “male homosexuals.”

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About Randy

Randy Blackwell is the author of the Forgotten Portals series starting with Rise of the Magi which just came out at the end of 2012. Rise of the Magi is a Christian Fantasy Sci-fi Steampunk novel. It is available at Amazon.com (paperback and Kindle), Barnes and Noble in stores and online, and Books-a-million (online). An audio book is being made right now that will be available on Amazon, Audible, and iTunes. A screenplay has been written and is in the final stages of editing. Once the editing is done Randy is going to submit it to a Hollywood producer who has been waiting for a month to see it.
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5 Responses to The Bible and Homosexuality… (response to Mark Sandlin Huffington Post)

  1. hvymtlcowboy says:

    Reblogged this on Heavy Metal Cowboy and commented:
    Just thought this was interesting and wanted to share.

  2. Pingback: Your God Hates Everyone So Stop With The Lies | Black Atheists

    • Randy says:

      My God?

      He is not my god in the sense that I made Him up and He exists for my convenience. There is emphasis put on my ownership of Him when its quite the reverse. He is not mine, I am His. If he was a concoction of my own imagination He would look something like Santa and make it rain Krispy Kream daily. He would grant me my every wish like a genie in a bottle. He would not ask anything of me and would never put me in situations that made me unhappy or uncomfortable.

      But that wouldnt be the God of the Bible. The God who had His own Son crucified for our sins, Christ who calls us to the crucifixion with Him. He does so symbolically asking us to crucify our flesh. To sacrifice our desires. Nope, doesnt sound like anything I would have ever come up with on my own.

      Do you think that being a Christian is about convenience? An average of 159,960 Christians worldwide are martyred for their faith per year. That isnt convenience, that is sacrifice. Which is the pattern Christ set for us.

      My god? no. He belongs to no man as their own concoction. We blong to Him.

      • Timble says:

        Randy. Being a Christian is all about achieving the ultimate reward, going to your supposed promised land. Every good deed a Christian does is, to them, a step towards them being “paid off” for their work. A true altruist is someone who does good for the sake of doing good, a person acting in the name of God is doing good simply because they want to be rewarded for it.

        And as for the image above, no, gay people do not want to “not be judged for what they believe in.” They want to not be judged for who they are and what their bodies have decided to make them. Your choice of religion is not even remotely similar to this.

      • Randy says:

        Being a Christian has nothing to do with fire insurance. Anyone who has had even one theology class in their life will tell you that being a Christian is about the restoration of God’s image in his children. “Doing good” is NOT what Christianity is about. It’s what all other religions are about. The thought that you can earn your way to God is comical if not just sad.
        In Matthew 7:21-23 Christmas speaks of those who called him Lord, prophecied, cast out demons, and performed many miracles in His name. It’s not about what people do to get to God.
        21“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

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